Breaker one-nine, we have a Wheel of Time Reread here, how copy?
Today’s entry covers Chapter 33 of A Memory of Light, in which Aviendha directs traffic, Perrin takes the extremely scenic route, and Faile makes the worst wrong turn EVER.
Previous reread entries are here. The Wheel of Time Master Index is here, which has links to news, reviews, interviews, and all manner of information about the Wheel of Time in general. The index for all things specifically related to the final novel in the series, A Memory of Light, is here.
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This re-read post, and all posts henceforth, contain spoilers for the entire Wheel of Time series. If you haven’t read, read at your own risk.
And now, the post!
Chapter 33: The Prince’s Tabac
What Happens
Perrin fights with Slayer in the clouds, and taunts him that he’s never hunted prey that can fight back before. Slayer tricks Perrin into almost not seeing his next attack, but Perrin avoids it just in time, falling to the ground. He sees that the storm is worse here, entire swaths of the landscape disintegrating in it. He goes after Slayer again, but the other escapes as well.
Perrin growled. Slayer was too quick!
Perrin was fast, too. Sooner or later, one of them would slip. One slip would be enough.
He chases Slayer to a beach somewhere in the south, and they fight some more, ending up on the ocean floor. Slayer tells Perrin he is glad Perrin showed up to interfere in his attempt to kill Rand. Perrin asks how he can think the Dark One will reward him, but Slayer replies that the Dark One does not discard “useful tools”. Perrin asks him what he is. Slayer tells him that in this life you are either predator or prey, and the only way to survive is to “move up the chain.”
“Wolves and men are the finest hunters in this world,” Slayer said softly. “Kill them, and you elevate yourself above them. Not all of us had the privilege of growing up in a comfortable home with a warm hearth and laughing siblings.”
Perrin and Slayer rounded one another, shadows blending, lightning blasts above shimmering through the water.
“If you knew my life,” Slayer said, “you’d howl. The hopelessness, the agony… I soon found my way. My power. In this place, I am a king.”
Slayer tackles Perrin into the water, and Perrin nearly lets the belief that he is in water get to him, but shifts away at the last moment. He is suddenly exhausted, and doesn’t understand why his control over the wolf dream is slipping. He prepares to meet Slayer again, but is too slow to react when Slayer appears behind him. Slayer shoots him in the shoulder just before he shifts away.
In Tar Valon, Faile listens to Vanin as he riles Mandevwin up by opining that they should be getting paid to fight in the Last Battle. Mandevwin doesn’t understand why they have to be here overseeing supply deliveries when they could be with Lord Mat, and Faile thinks that none of the Band soldiers (fifty all told) know their true purpose here: guarding the Horn of Valere. Faile wonders why she is so worried when they have such a short way to go to get the Horn to Mat in Merrilor. Laras approaches with a chest she claims carries Two Rivers tabac for Mat; Faile pretends disgust at the inappropriateness of it, and has to force herself not to check the chest’s real contents. Laras leaves, and Faile reflects on the irony of her situation.
She had left home with her head full of arrogant dreams, a child thinking herself on a grand quest to find the Horn.
Life had knocked those out from under her, leaving her to haul herself back up. She had grown up, had started paying mind to what was really important. And now… now the Pattern, with almost casual indifference, dropped the Horn of Valere into her lap.
Vanin, Mandevwin, and now Harnan are still chirping each other, and move off. Faile begins to leave as well, and then notices Vanin is hanging back. He leaves as soon as he notices her looking. Olver runs up to report the caravan is ready; Faile had not wanted him there, but the Band members and Setalle Anan had insisted on it, to keep him out of the fighting. The caravan moves out, and Faile tries not to worry about how Perrin has vanished. She wonders if he had suggested her for this task to keep her off the battlefield, and decides it will make an excellent subject for a fight later. There is an earthquake as they leave Tar Valon for the Traveling grounds.
People spoke of the land becoming unstable, the groanings of the earth coming to match the breaking of the sky by lightning and thunder. She had heard more than one report of the spiderweb cracks that appeared in rocks, pure black, as if they extended on into eternity itself.
They are last in line to use the gateways, and Faile cannot afford to draw attention by skipping ahead. She talks with Aravine to pass the time. She asks Harnan about Vanin, who claims Vanin is their best scout, and assures her she has nothing to worry about despite Vanin’s checkered past. Faile is not so sure. Finally it is their turn. Berisha Sedai starts to make the gateway just as the ground begins to rumble again. Faile thinks it is another earthquake, but then:
A series of sharp black crystal spikes split the ground nearby, jutting upward some ten or fifteen feet. One speared a Redarm’s horse, splashing blood into the air as the spike went straight through both beast and man.
“Bubble of evil!” Harnan called from nearby.
More spikes erupt, causing chaos, and Faile screams at Berisha to finish the gateway. Berisha gets stabbed through the foot, but manages to finish the gateway even so. She calls for the caravan to go through, and slowly they get together enough to obey. Faile is horrified to see that the spikes have silhouettes of screaming people trapped inside. Finally the rest of the caravan is through and Faile goes to follow in her own wagon. She tries to get Berisha to come, but the Aes Sedai is bleeding out. Mandevwin gallops up and grabs Faile, and hauls her through the gateway just before it snaps shut. Then she realizes that the gateway has not taken them to Merrilor.
“Where…” Faile whispered, joining the others, who stared at the horrid landscape. A sweltering heat, plants covered in spots of darkness, a scent of something awful in the air.
They were in the Blight.
In Thakan’dar, Aviendha eats in a tent with Melaine, who is visiting from Mayene. Aviendha slips outside and looks at the mountain, where Rand has been for five days now.
We have to hold, Aviendha thought. We have to fight. Give him as much time as we can.
At least she knew he still lived. She could sense that. And his pain.
She looked away.
She thinks of how Ituralde had returned after (he claimed) being held by wolves, and was now in custody. They had barely defeated the Fade attack, but the Shadow has not attacked since. She is worried about that, but also grateful for the respite. Then she senses a woman channeling in the camp, which should not be happening. She stomps toward it, thinking it is one of the Windfinders, but then realizes it’s not coming from their tents. She creeps up quietly on the source, and discovers it is near Darlin Sisnera’s tent. Darlin had been given command when Ituralde vanished. She sees three figures outside the tent, but then sees they are veiled. Assuming they are Aiel, Aviendha approaches them openly, but they attack her. She tries to embrace the Source, but is shielded, and she realizes at least one of the men can channel. She attacks physically instead, and manages to kill one of them before they immobilize her with Air. She sees they are wearing red veils.
These aren’t Aiel, Aviendha thought. They’re something different. Her mind wrestled with the concept. Aiel who were not Aiel? Men who could channel?
The men we send, she realized with horror. Men discovered among the Aiel with the ability to channel were sent to try to kill the Dark One. Alone, they came to the Blight. Nobody knew what happened to them after that.
Cadsuane appears, searching for the disturbance, and one of the Darkfriends hides Aviendha while the other pretends to be a regular Aiel. Cadsuane apparently buys it and turns to go. The red-veils turn back to Aviendha, preparing to kill her, but the one holding her shield drops dead. Aviendha swiftly dispatches the other one, and finds Cadsuane there. She asks how Cadsuane knew the Aiel was a fake, and Cadsuane answers that she is no “half-trained wilder”. Aviendha refutes Cadsuane’s query about whether the Aiel have been hiding male channelers all along, and says they must warn the camp. Then she remembers the channeling that had drawn her here in the first place, and scouts about, but it is gone. She returns to Cadsuane just as a weave comes for the Aes Sedai from a seeming patch of darkness. Aviendha slices the weave.
Her enemy ducked out of the shadows— whatever weave she’d been using to hide had collapsed— revealing the woman Aviendha had fought before. The one with the face almost as ugly as a Trolloc’s.
The woman dashed behind a group of tents just before the ground ripped up behind her — a weave that Aviendha hadn’t made. A second later, the woman folded again, as she had before. Vanishing.
Cadsuane grudgingly thanks Aviendha, and speculates on the strange Traveling method the woman had used, but they are interrupted by an attack on the front lines, at the same time as Aviendha senses women channeling around the camp. Cadsuane tells her there are dozens of channelers, mostly men, and sends her to gather the others. Aviendha runs to find Flinn, Amys, and Sorilea. She explains to Sorilea about the Darkfriend Aiel and where she thinks they came from.
Sorilea hissed softly. “If this is true, child, then this night will mark great toh for us all. Toh toward the Car’a’carn, toh toward the land itself.”
“I know.”
Aviendha forms a circle with two Aes Sedai and two Wise Ones, and brings Flinn along to point out the channeling men. She comes across King Darlin bellowing orders, and confirms with him the rumors of Aiel Dreadlords. He says they won’t stand a chance unless Aviendha’s channelers can hold them off. She warns him about the channeling near his tent, and Darlin immediately worries that he has been compromised like Ituralde. Aviendha advises that he go to Rhuarc and plan with his commanders jointly, letting no one person control the battle.
“That could lead to disaster,” Darlin said. “If we don’t have flexibility…”
“What needs be changed?” Aviendha asked grimly. “We hold. With everything we have, we hold. We don’t pull back. We don’t try anything clever. We just hold.”
Darlin agrees, and Aviendha returns to her circle, feeling helpless, which she hates. She begins to prepare to fight.
Commentary
I really don’t know if these chapter summaries keep getting longer because the chapters themselves are getting denser, or if I am just slowly leaking brevity like a days-old helium balloon. It’s probably a little bit of both, but either way, sheesh.
But in any case, this was a chapter just filled with happenings and/or imagery of the kind that makes you think, “Damn, that would look cool on a movie screen.” It’s all “homicidal crystals with people-smoke trapped inside” and “having a swordfight on the ocean floor after we got bored of fighting in the clouds.” You know, like you do.
Other than the cool imagery, however, I’m basically more annoyed by the Slayer v. Perrin scene than anything else, because Slayer’s refusal here to answer Perrin’s question re: What is your deal, dude, seriously reminds me that we don’t ever get an answer to this question, not really. Yes, we know now that Isam grew up in the nearest equivalent of hell on earth Randland has to offer, and that was his motive for becoming Slayer, but for god’s sake, how did he do it? When and where did Isam meet Luc, and how did that meeting end up making them into Voltron: Dickbag Assassin of the Universe? TELLLL MEEEEEEE
But no, I do not get told. Ergo, annoyance. Blarg.
But it’s okay, because this chapter also contains one of the bigger DUN! moments in the whole book as far as I am concerned. I don’t know about y’all, but I got legit chills when Faile realized she—and the Horn—were now trapped in the Blight.
Of course, in retrospect I have no idea why I was surprised, because obviously it was never going to be as simple as having Faile just skip on over to Merrilor and hand the Horn off to Mat like it ain’t no thang. But I guess I was expecting something—just not that Faile would accidentally get rerouted to the Blight. So, well-played there, Team Jordan. I also really enjoyed the irony—as Faile herself points out—of our most well-known Hunter of the Horn character ending up put in charge of the thing. Nice way to bring Faile’s character full circle, at least after a fashion.
Also, nice set-up for the misunderstandings between Faile and Vanin et al later on. One of the things which has kind of gotten lost in the shuffle in the later books is the reminder that if you’re not Messiah Boy, there’s actually no way to tell just from looking whether someone is a Darkfriend or not (provided, naturally, that they don’t do something so creepily obvious as filing their teeth to points, ugh). Which makes them much more potentially dangerous than your basic Shadowspawn—who are many things, but “inconspicuous” is not generally one of them, you know?
Also also, I know I give Faile (and the Saldaeans in general) grief over their cultural idiosyncrasies re: healthy marriage practices, but even so I couldn’t help but be a little amused that she’s sitting there planning which fights she wants to have with Perrin. I can only assume (and, in fact, I think it’s been said) that the makeup sex is spectacular.
As for Aviendha, I think her leadership dynamic in Thakan’dar is… interesting. Because both Cadsuane and Sorilea totally boss her around, and yet they are still leaving her in charge of the channelers. Plus her word evidently carries serious weight with the non-channeling portion of the army as well, since she basically dictates to Darlin here how he should do his job. I’m not saying that’s not reasonable, since avoiding Compulsion (or at least the effects of it) is after all a channeling-related problem, but it’s just—interesting.
Sorilea’s comment in response to the revelation about the Aiel Dreadlords was also interesting. I get how she thinks the Aiel have toh toward the land because of this, but why to Rand in particular? Is it just because she thinks they’ve made his job harder, or because as fellow channelers, these Dreadlord Aiel were his brethren in a way?
In any case, wow, that must be a crappy thing to realize, that you’ve basically been delivering gift-wrapped channelers to your enemy, for centuries. I was going to say something catty about how it’s so obvious and they should have realized it long since, but since it never occurred to me before the first time we see the red-veils at the end of TOM, maybe I should get out of my glass house before throwing those stones, eh?
Logically, she knew that the Dark One was not nearby, not really. That wasn’t what the Bore was. He didn’t live in this place; he existed outside the Pattern, inside his prison. Still, bedding down here was like trying to sleep while a murderer stood beside your bed, holding a knife and contemplating the color of your hair.
Well, that’s not a creepy visual at all.
And that’s about what I got for this one, kids. Have a lovely week, and I’ll see you next Tuesday!
The one plot-line that I could have most done without was Faile’s horn travelling shenanigans. Never cared about her, still don’t care about her, haven’t forgiven her for the wrist slit inducing storyline of Malden. I’m aware you can’t just give Mat the horn, but my God did I skim these viewpoints as fast as I could. Thank God they didn’t take up more space than the relatively little that they did.
Can anyone explain to me what was the point of all this subterfuge Faile was running here when there is Travelling available? The whole thing seems extremely contrived.
3 very good viewpoints. Perrin is really showing how he has been tempered. I like Faile and think this was a great way to get the Horn moving, but not right to Mat (who can”t use it anyways). Aviendha and the red-veiled Aiel…. that is the cruelest blow to a proud people, turned to serve the enemy that for 1000’s of years you have been preparing to fight
My thinking regarding the HOW?!? of Slayer is that whichever of the forsaken was responsible for all the happy-fun experiments that created Myrdraal and Trollocs (sorry, I don’t remember who it was) decided to have another experiment with cramming two souls into a body and seeing what would happen, and got an awesome tool out of the bargain.
Samadai @3: What do you mean, Mat can’t use the Horn? Anyone can, since his link with it’s been broken. It seems highly unlikely that he wouldn’t be able to re-attune himself to it if he blew it again.
Ilmoran @@.-@: Don’t think it could have been Aginor. He would still have been caught up in the DO’s prison when Slayer was created.
And finally we find out what happened to Olver!!!
This delayed update was something that majorly bugged me.
On to the full post…
Oops, yeah, I was just thinking about his broken link. that just a doink on my part
Rereading this chapter made me wonder: Did Mat have to die to live again specifically because of his ties to the Horn? Since we all know how that storyline gets resolved, and the Horn doesn’t reach Mat, was his death needed because 1) he was needed for other purposes (leading the armies in the Last Battle) and 2) someone else needed to be able to blow the Horn?
Outside of that, this chapter had 3 very good scenes. The scene with Aviendha/Cadsuane was particularly memorable (wasn’t it one of the Memories, with Cadsuane?)
@2 Basically they were trying to keep the location of the horn and it’s movements on the down low becasue they didn’t know who was working for the shadow.
They were also still under the impression which we were all under since Book one that the Heroes would fight for whichever side blew the Horn.
Faile’s whole Horn plot was contrived. Egwene or Elayne could have simply went and got it themselves. But at least her decoy trips didnt get screen time.
it would have been cool for Androl to say his miracle line, open a gateway and drop the horn right in somebodys lap.
but I’m more curious about how Aravine managed to stab the AS…and nobody saw it. Yea yea bubble of evil, but still…no one saw anything?
I thought it funny that the Forsaken think of the Aes Sedai as “half trained children” and the Aes Sedai think of every one else as “half trained wilders”
Cadsuane has a paralis-net…and wasnt it confirmed somewhere that she has a terangreal that stops direct weaves? I hate that we never see her get attacked and take advantage of someone’s surprise.
I agree that Faile’s detour probably wasn’t completely necessary but I didn’t mind it, it helps give a few more characters interesting wrap ups other than that ‘they were at the battle,’ I also liked the little peak into the bad guys ‘behind the scenes’ actions in the Blight, it’s a nice reminder that although the battle is only taking place in 2 places now there are still important events going on elsewhere.
I think the added inconvenience (understatement of the year) of being stuck in the Blight with the horn is believable since there are still black ajah and unknown dark friends running around trying to screw up everything for the good guys, although if this were real life I would’ve expected someone to just travel and get the horn.
Also annoyed at no 1-2 paragraph wrap up of Slayer’s backstory. That would’ve been nice.
I found the reveal of what happens to to the male Aiel channelers to be very sad, for the men themselves and for the Aiel as a whole, but to be honest I also didn’t see it coming until the end of ToM so I GUESS I can’t really hold it against them completely for letting that happen lol.
Oh and Perrin/Slayer fights are awesome as always.
Interesting observation on Aviendha being in charge at Shayol Ghul. Is she only placed in charge because she is Rand’s lover? Does she have any actual experience of leading troops, organising battles, or that much channeling combat experience (or for that matter leadership experience) at all?
Another great re-read this week.
@6 Yes Olver finally shows up, but did we ever really find out what’s been happening to Olver since we last seen him with his knife running to fight the Trollocs at Andor? They just seemed to skip all of that, and that was a big OMG at the end of ToM.
Slayer…another disappointment of unanswered questions! Would have liked to have learned more of how Isam and luc met and became Slayer.
I think Rand put her in charge because he’s all emotional and loving now. He believes in her. I thought it odd that Cadsuane wasn’t in charge… and the other thing I never understood (and correct me if this has been mentioned or addressed somewhere else) is where are all the Aiel Wise Ones??
The Shaido had somewhere around 400 channeling women (as Annoura said “Half the White Tower in one clan”
the other 11 clans should have as many, plus the Sea Folk channelers couldn’t ALL have been working the Bowl even in rotation.
But the only channeling Wise Ones i recall fighting are Amys and Sorilea…
Well, this chapter dealt with Faile who was far from my favorite character, I actually felt bad for Perrin, he was such a great guy to be stuck with her, oh well. I don’t recall whether this problemwith the black shafts and getting misdirected was a direct result of the DO to subvert her over to get the horn or it is just the fog of war and chance. I agree with Brandi that it did make it more convenient to wrap things up
Olver, he was a strange one but turned out alright. To me anyway, I felt that these lesser characters were sumarily put or stuffed into scenes kind of jarringly.
Slayer, I would have felt better if they could have taken about twenty or so pages about Slayer right out of the book, I seriously doubt it would have hurt anything. Like Leighdb said, what the F after all that, and he still doesn’t tell the readers who, what and why of him.
Cadsuane, maybe it is me, but I felt that perhaps the writing or maybe simply the way it fell out, that she substantialy changed her whole attitude. She pretty much used to command attention whereever she went, but now, she simply goes about her business without so much ado. I do like it better, but that is just not her way unless it was a deal between her and Sorilea.
As far as Aviendha goes, I believe she is there because she is a wise one and they were meant to protect the inner valley against against the forsaken and anyone slipping through. I felt she really didn’t have a solid battle plan or orders except to be able to move to different postions at a moments notice.
Great scene. I agree that the Perrin v Slayer battle would be awesome on screen. That’s always been a real strength of BWS, and I could clearly picture the battle as they disappear and reappear, kind of like the movie Jumper.
I too could have done without the Faile lost in the blight arc. It was interesting and tense, but was one of the most contrived plot points ever. The horn needed to be in danger with Olver there, so for the first time we’ve ever seen, the gateway worked but opened to the wrong spot, and it just happens to be in the blight?
I figure the TOH sorelia and Aviendha refer to is regarding Rands father. Jauduin- did I spell that right- was upset that he brought his girlfriend into the wetlands while pregnant that his shame caused him to leave. Perhaps the wise ones think that by letting him go to become a pawn of the dark, they own Rand. I’m not sure though if you need wise ones permission to go and spit i. Sight blinders eyes. And he was probably killed instead of turned since he couldn’t channel- that we know of- but the Ariel see slights of honor everywhere.
And auto correct should be burned in a fiery hades for corrected Aiel with Ariel
Slayer is an interesting concept. We know that souls can be messed with directly via cour’souvra, but if I remember right you had to be a channeler to be entrapped with one and it can only happen at Shayol Ghul implying that a permeability of the Pattern or the DO or both is required to make it work.
I would presume the DO captured one soul (take your pick of who since the Dark Prophecy doesn’t specify, but I think it was Isam) and tied it to the other’s body, both of which were technically in TAR and the Waking world at the same time creating a permanent physical link between the two.
I like to think that the DO or Ishamael made Luc and Isam duel to the death in Shayol Ghul. Maybe Osan/Aran’Gar style. Isam probably lost to the First Prince’s formal training and the DO captured his soul, merging it with Luc’s body.
Emeril Lagasse cried out and the spiciest assassin recipe ever was cooked up.
@15 re Cadsuane – Well now that we’re at the pinnacle of the saga, there are a few observations that I have about Cadsuane in response to your comments:
1) She’s not the oldest anymore. She was viewed like a demi-god in the tower because she was the oldest of the AS, but the Kin and Alivia kind of blew her out of the water on the age thing.
2) She’s not the most powerful anymore. Since the rise of Nyn, Alivia, and a few of the WO and Seafolk, Cadsuane is not unique anymore. She would still be considered as having a great deal of strength in the Power but she’s not the only one, besides the Supergirls etc., there were several Novices that had the potential to eclipse pretty much all of the currently living AS.
3) It’s the Last Battle! People with strength and brains like Cadsuane are sprouting up everywhere and en force to fight and defeat the Dark One. She’s among her peers, she’s done everything she can to prepare, it’s time enough to be going on with!
Anyway, that’s my two cents worth…
@16 – I don’t think we’ve ruled out the possibility that the AS who opened the gateway was a Darkfriend and that it was intended that Faile & company be diverted there if anything just to keep additional resources from reaching their needed locations.
@17 – Do we in fact know that Rand’s father was a channeler? I thought he was killed in the Aiel War?
This also makes me think that Wolf Brothers are the souls of Wolves killed in TAR that the Pattern recycles by attaching them to reborn humans.
Maybe wolves and Heroes of the Horn get to actively wander around in TAR and therein lies the danger of violating the Precepts (thanks Gaidal Cain) by looking for interesting points of intervention like Birgitte did. After all, she was ripped out of TAR and had a physical body. That’s pretty weird from a world building standpoint. The Wolves soul may need a new body if they want to be spun out again.
Then there’s the personality struggle to “give in” and seed control to the wolf completely like Boundless or to find a more amicable solution.
I guess in a lot of ways the Wolf Brother struggle of merging personalities into a balance of sorts is the reason why Perrin understands Rand at a meta level and they could have their deep conversation without either of them flipping out.
Plus Wolf soul heroes exist, which is probably what Hopper was and why he took an interest in continuing Perrin’s training and could be found in TAR again. Hopper likely violated the Precepts and paid for it.
@22
In book four Rand asked the wise ones of his father still lived and they told him he left for the blight after giving up his chief role of the taardaad Aiel. (Did I spell taardaad right? Probably not.) I don’t think he was a channeled I think he just wanted to die.
Well, I guess I am in the minority on a couple of fronts.
First, I did not like the Matrix style fighting between Perrin and Slayer in ToM and AMoL. I can see how this could be a logical means for non-channeling experts in the World of Dreams to fight one another. That said, it left a bad taste in my mouth. It has a “new school” / “modern” feel to it. As others have said above, it would do well with the current technology on film. However, it is so different than any other style in prior novels that it seems (IMO) out of place.
I would not have been so bothered if various characters had moved like that in the World of Dreams throughout the series. But they did not (Egwene’s flying in TDR do not count, IMO). I understand that characters molded things in the World of Dreams to suit there purposes (for example, Suian creating the her map in LOC). But for me, there is a difference between that stuff and a Matrix style fight to the death. I will not call a foul because (as I noted above), this fight sequence fits within the rules of the World of Dreams.
Maybe I did not like the Perrin & Slayer fight scenes because a) they went on for two books; b) three long scenes in AMoL which resulted in (i) a draw, (ii) Slayer’s win; and (iii) Perrin’s win; and c) I do not like the Matrix movies and these scenes reminded me of the Matrix movies.
Oh well, moving on. A lot of people on this re-read dislike Faile. I am no exception. For the majority of the series, she was my second least favorite character. I kept waiting for her to die as I felt she had no useful purposes. Further, she was a B*%&h (with a capital “B”). I thought it would have made a better story if Perrin and Berelain became a couple from the start. I think there strengths and weaknesses would compliment one another — much more so than Perrin and Faile. Alas, that was not what RJ wanted.
Nevertheless, I am not sure if there was a character in the entire series who matured as much from where the reader’s first met him/her than Faile. Rand, Perrin and Elayne did mature as well. However, I felt that when we first met all three characters, there was more good than bad in those three (by good and bad, I mean an upstanding person, not the good of Team Light and the bad of Team Evil).
Is there anybody out there who would want to have been friends (platonic or otherwise) with somebody in RL who was exactly like Faile was when we first met her. I would not.
Yet, even her detractors (which I am still) have to admit that she matured after Malden. I beleive she admits as much to herself at least a couple of times in the last 3 books. I grant you she is still a Saldean to her core (as Leigh so eloquently noted in her commentary above). I for one, could not handle a woman who was in RL was would act as a Saldean would act with respect to her relationship.
My issue was not with the detour to the Blight. My issue was with the use of the Horn itself. Maybe it was as Hawkwing himself said. The myth of the Heroes was greater than their actual worth to the Battle. I would have enjoyed if we got to see more of the military exploits of the Heroes during the Last Battle (Brigitte & Noal, notwithstanding). For me, I would have enjoyed if the Horn was blown before Mat made his “last toss of the dice.”
Mat’s plan was to use his forces to encircle the Shadow’s forces after the Shadow had committed all of its forces. If the Horn had been blow earlier in the Last Battle, Mat could have lead a portion of the troops and Hawkwing the other. We then could have had a point of view from one of the characters (Galad, Tam some other character with good military knowledge) commenting on Hawkwing’s military knowledge and comparing it to Mat’s. Other POVs could have focused on the charges that other Heroes made. Instead, we get a limited look at what the Heroes did.
LuvURphleb @17 & 25 and thepupxpert @22. IIRC, after the Aiel War (and the death of Rand’s mother), Rand’s father gave up his clan chief position. Instead, he went to do what the male Aiel channelers would do (although he himself was not one): Blind Sightblinder. Witnesses claimed he was killed by somebody who bore a resemblence to Rand’s mother. Rand’s father would not attack this person because he looked too much like Rand’s mother. The reader is led to believe (or at least I beleive) that the person who killed Rand’s father was Luc.
Leigh, after reading your beginning comment (“Breaker one-nine, we have a Wheel of Time Reread here, how copy”), I thought you would have closed out with “10-4 good readers”.
Ok, I would have liked that.
Thanks for reading my musings,
AndrewB
The Wise Ones exchanged hesitant glances. At last Amys said, “It was the beginning of the third year of the search for Laman when Shaiel found herself with child. By the laws, she should have returned to the Three-fold Land. A Maiden is forbidden to carry the spear while she carries a child. But Janduin could forbid her nothing; had she asked the moon on a necklace, he would have tried to give it to her. So she stayed, and in the last fight, before Tar Valon, she was lost, and the child was lost. Janduin could not forgive himself for not making her obey the law.”
“He gave up his place as clan chief,” Bair said. “No one had ever done that before. He was told it could not be done, but he simply walked away. He went north with the young men, to hunt Trollocs and Myrddraal in the Blight. It is a thing wild young men do, and Maidens with less sense than goats. Those who returned said he was killed by a man, though. They said Janduin claimed this man looked like Shaiel, and he would not raise his spear when the man ran him through.”
@27 Wet – thanks for that passage, such hauntingly beautiful writing.
Re: the horn deception. At the big pre-battle meeting no one knew how to coordinate with Mat or when that hand-off would occur so since all the major players had duties someone had to put put in charge of executing the handoff once Mat appeared. Between now and then setting up some deception just made sense and those deception goods needed to be delivered anyway.
@26. AndrewHB: “…I am not sure if there was a character in the entire series who matured as much from where the reader’s first met him/her than Faile….” She’s hardly my favorite, either, but her work with Perrin in The Two Rivers when his family was killed, and when he was wounded, was sensitive and touching and effective. I don’t see Berelain quite filling the role of a good and strong wife and companion of someone who is constantly in danger and also trying to get out of the limelight at every turn. Her political advisory role in other parts (like making Alliandre liege) was astute. Perrin, interestingly, is the most “political” of the Superboys. He gathers civilian people around him who recognize and want his leadership, and promote him for his civic AND military leadership. Mat on the other hand has an army around him, and a military role, but will never lead a polity. And Rand is a Messiah, a conqueror, but not a consolidator – and his obvious role in the world ends with this book. Faile was, in the end, a good match for Perrin.
The one thing about Slayer that I really want to know is why Gitara sent Luc to the Blight. How does Luc going to the Blight help save the world? It seems to me that nothing good came of that particular part of her Fortelling.
Why should Gitara have understood her Foretellings better than Elaida? There was never proof that dark prophecies were only made by darkfriends and good prophecies only by good people.
RE: The Aeil owing Toh to Rand.
Rand explicitly criticised the practice of sending Male Channelers to the Blight. He asked them to stop and they refused. That and his kinship as the only living Male Aiel Channeler means they’ve both killed his clan and gave the dark lord a new weapon. I can certainly see why they feel guilt towards Rand.
It is telling that in the possible future all Aiel male channelers seem to have formed a new Wise One-like warrior society named after him it isn’t a stretch they consider male channelers “his”.
Ellanora @12: Aviendha’s at least had military training and experience, though her leadership experience is probably limited to small groups. She was the one doing all the talking when the girls first ran into her squad way back in TDR, and was putting together their rescue team herself until she ran across Rhuarc and handed it off to him.
That doesn’t exactly mean she’s prepared to run a battle like this, even just as the head of the power brigade, but who else is? The wise ones have historically stayed out of the fighting, so she might actually be among the most experienced among them with power-combat or leadership. Really, very few living channelers have real military experience* (some greens and reds probably should, but they’ve been fairly disappointing).
*The men have Rand/LTT, Logain, and possibly a few less senior Asha’man with the right background. The women have the more militant AS (who, alas, mostly fail to deliver on expectations), plus the windfinders. And the sul’dam/damane, kinda, though they come with a pile of other problems. Among mundane commanders, the Seanchan and maybe a few borderlanders would be the only ones with anything like the right experience.
Admittedly, the apocalypse is incentive to learn fast.
(Though Ituralde and Bashere, at least, almost certainly would have experience integrating channeling forces. As would Mat; his own exploits aside, he can remember the Trolloc Wars.)
—
Thepupexpert @20: Also, Cadsuane’s usual style almost blew up the world. And on top of that, she got an (awesome) verbal smackdown from Tam.
—
JennB @31: Well, nothing good comes of Slayer directly, but without him maybe 75% of Perrin’s development goes away. No trollocs in the Two Rivers, no dreamworld-fu, no messing about with the dreamspikes or Egwene or defending Rand or anything.
(Gitara’s true purpose in sending Luc north: to save us readers from a dozen books with the only Perrin plot being Masema and the Shaido, with occasional Whitecloaks.)
(Truly, we owe her our undying gratitude.)
Re: Darlin,
To me his concern seems a legitimate one. His “boss” and all the other leaders where shown to be compromised. He vocalized a real self-doubt, “What if I’m next?”
I saw this as Avi acting as an external voice of reason / reassurance. “All we do is hold. We don’t change from that.” Hard to get the lead guy to vary from that tactic if everyone is on guard against bad orders.
She wasn’t acting a some great commander or military expert, she reminded him of the army’s task at this battlefront. Something every person at that battle front knows. They are there to so Rand can do his job.
Gateway:
Didn’t Verin keep getting jacked around by Gateways so the Pattern lead her to Mat? A stray thought has the door open to the wrong point.
Berisha Sedai had just been stabbed by a bubble of evil. Those come from the Dark One, who is in the Blight. Lots of distractions that could cause a random thought of the Bligh vs. Merrilor. The Pattern or Dark One ensured they landed within a few days of the Town o’Hell. Because if they were sent too far into the Blight, they are out of the story for the rest of the battle.
@23, CireNaes: That’s a nice thought about Wolves and Men’s souls. Luc has been around long enough to kill so that a wolf soul was ready for Perrin. But maybe the two join only when the Pattern calls for them. Makes me wonder if any of Perrin’s children will be Wolfbrothers/sisters. But there may not be the need for them.
@26, AndrewHB: Agree. Faile when from acting like a 15 year old to acting like an adult from an odd culture. Will admit, RJ did the worst job of convincing me that Perrin and Faile were “in love” by book 3 and all the trouble he had to go through to rescue her in DR. I understand the trope of “don’t know you love until you lose”, but there was a reach. I now know they are in love, but by book 3, not so much.
Still wanted to slap Cadsuane upside the head for her comment to Aviendha about “half-trained wilders” when the ONLY reason she knew what was happening was her paralis-net, not any White Tower training or innate ability.
Also have to agree that Faile, much as I did not and still do not care for her much as a character, matured the most of any character in the series. Rand’s downs and ups were different to my mind, although with better treatment from people like Cadsuane, perhaps he would not have to have gone so far down before recovering into the hero he needed to be.
And somewhat off-topic, has there been any more said about putting the last three books together in timeline order in an e-book? I would definitely like to see that!
In case anyone is interested, Dragonmount posted that the WoT Encyclopedia will not be published in the spring, but more likely in the fall of 2014
I was always sure Laras had the Horn, and I’m glad to see her again.
Never would I have expected Faile to end up with it!
And, DUN is an understatement. I think I used “OH SHIT! They’re in the Blight.”
Cads: Totally in character IMHO.
re Perrin/Faile – Since they were both so young (15 and 20 respectively, I believe), I don’t think either one of them knew how they were supposed to feel about each other. Obviously, they were completely enamored and annoyed with each other at the same time, but it took a while for those feelings to grow into something that they both finally recognized as love. I know there’s lots of Faile haters out there but I still find hers and Perrin’s arc and Nyn/Lan’s arc to be my favorites. I guess there’s something about denial, curiosity, and bowing to the inevitable that I find so endearing. OTOH, I wasn’t as keen as others about Rand’s relationships, not to diminsh them at all, but his relationships with Min, Elayne & Avi didn’t hit me as strongly as the others. I was also oddly drawn toward Mat/Tuon and especially since I’m still in my re-read for this year it was really nice to go over things I missed previously.
I agree that Faile made huge leaps in her character during her time with the Shaido but what really stood out for me was when she lead her troops against the Trollocs at Emonds Field. That was a real turning point for her in my mind.
For some time now, people have been asking Brandon questions about what it was like to write the ending of the WoT, and now he’s finally able to do it. He’s started a series of blog posts about it, and I strongly recommend reading them. Yesterday’s was particularly interesting in light of the past couple of weeks’ discussion here.
http://brandonsanderson.com/the-wheel-of-time-retrospective-the-gathering-storm-writing-process/
For those who have followed the process very closely, the blogs are fleshing out a lot of things we’d already learned from him as we followed q&a, signing reports, etc.
For those who simply read the books, whether you liked or disliked them/him, this series should provide both accurate and interesting information about many of the decisions that were made. (Yesterday’s talks, among other things, about the rationale behind the way the three books were split. It had nothing to do with geography.)
Samadai @@@@@ 37
Thanks for the info, despite not being good news. Maybe the delay is because they’ve discovered a manuscript of RJ’s with fairly complete version of Moiraine and Lan’s search for Rand. Now they need extra time for editing and stuff- sorry for being too technical in my terminology. I bet they’ll include this novella in the Encyclopedia as a Thank You surprise to the fans! I am sure that’s the case…
thepupxpert @39 — where did you get that Faile was 15 years old when we first saw her in TDR? I did not realize she was that young. I thought she was a few years older. The same age as Egwene and Elayne.
Thanks for reading my musings,
AndrewB
Edit: I originally did the quotes from memory and got the meanings correct but not the exact words. They’re accurate now.
AndrewHB @39: This was a retcon; originally Faile thought at one point (in LoC, Prologue) “… and Ewin was her age.” Ewin was 15 at that time, so once RJ realized the somewhat squicky implications, the text was revised to “… and Ewin [was] not really that much younger than she herself.”
@Wet
Thanks for that link to BWS’ blog. That’s an amazing look at how the final trilogy took its shape. Many more details than expected.
Late again… got distracted. ;)
Great post as usual, Leigh.
Lot of stuff in this chapter. So, the usual sentiments:
Slayer:
Shut up and DIE already!
Crystals:
*Shudder*-worthy.
Cadsuane saving Avi:
Didn’t see that one coming. Huh.
Darlin:
“G has probably corrupted Darlin now” is what I wrote—which is just what he thinks later in the chapter. Smart man.
This.
Though it doesn’t seem to be in my notes, at the time, I thought Faile & co. getting dropped in the Blight was going to be the start of another PLoD… which it sort of was, but not in the same way, and nowhere near as long.
Bzzz™.
Wetlander @@@@@ 40
Yes, thanks for the links to Brandon’s blogs. Quite interesting. You’ve done well to find the time to read them giving your busy reading schedule ;)
Wetlander@40: Yes, thanks. I don’t usually have/take time to chase down websites, and your link is helpful in making it easy to find stuff. And reading Sanderson’s blog brings home perhaps as not before just what an enoumous undertaking this job was! To create massive amounts of new material and integrate it smoothly into an incredibly intricate world populated by MANY highly complex characters . . . I would have been simply overwhelmed.
So, despite my many expressions here of disappointment at unresolved plot lines and teasers not resolved, which I attribute to RJ’s passing, Sanderson did an awesome job rescuing the saga.
ValMar @46 – I’m afraid it’s somewhat to the detriment of my housework… but yes, for the last month and more, I have been rather immersed in this stuff. :)
Not sure what I’m going to do after next weekend… I won’t have any more excuse to ignore the dishes.
@42 & 43 – I didn’t realize that was a retcon, I’ve always read Faile as being younger than any of the others in the core group (excepting Olver), even Berelain, who is often characterized as “young woman”. My impression of Faile was that she was at least a couple of years younger than Egs and Elayne. I guess that’s why I was more forgiving of her character flaws than other readers, I connected it with believing that she was really quite younger than the main characters, thereby making her learning curve that much steeper.
Even if Faile was younger than the rest of the core group, you have to remember that for the (real world) time period the series is modelled after, in the real world, they arent really considered children. Especially given her education and the inherent responsibilities given her place in the succession of her country. She probably wasnt permitted to be much of a kid or have a proper carefree childhood. (which on one hand explains her simultaneous maturity and immaturity)
thepupxpert @49: Well, the passage in LoC makes it pretty clear that Faile is still younger than the rest of the main characters; she’s just not 15. I see her as 17 but could see an argument for as young as 16.
tamyrlink @50: Yes, but remember the scene where Perrin meets Faile’s parents and Davram tells him that Faile isn’t old enough to marry without her mother’s permission. I’m not entirely sure that’s literal, but it could be.
Wetlander @@@@@ 48
At least this should have a positive effect on your posts here ;)
@51 and others – Thanks for your comments. Maybe I have an early edition of the book because I thought I had read that she was 15, but I’m probably misremembering there. I can definitely see her being 16 when we first meet her and then over a 2-year period that would put her at 18 but there is still the matter of her being underage to marry; in the Two Rivers I’m assuming that girls braided their hair at 18 and that would make sense as Egs is at the point where she could now braid her hair (and funnily enough when she gets out into the real world she decides against it). So if Faile met Perrin when she was 16 and they married and met up with her parents when she was 17, that would still put her at around 18 for the last battle, that seems realistic enough.
And one other thought, not to beat a dead horse, but if this is modeled after the real world, for that time period it was not unheard of at all that girls married at 14 or 16 years of age. I always thought 18 seemed kind of old for girls to be able to “braid their hair”, especially in an isolated community like the Two Rivers.
RE: filed teeth*
Wouldn’t filed teeth be basically useless for humans? (Except for the obvious menacing evil factor, yeah, there’s that)
I suppose if these guys literally needed to eat raw meat, then filed teeth *might* be better. But unless I’m mistaken, all it would do is weaken the teeth and cause them to be more susceptible to decay. Is there a dentist among us? Does anyone want to weigh in on this question?
Silly question?
*Okay, so I haven’t read all the responses yet and I don’t remember if we’ve ever covered this, but . . .
I must be one of the few that loved the Faile and Co. in the Blight thread.
I never hated Faile, but I was definitely irritated by her often, similar to how I felt about Elaida, but who had more good than bad to it weighed out in Faile’s favor for me. Oddly, I liked many bits of the PLOD (esp. Morgase with her lack of Power being the one who catches Faile’s followers’ attention), though I was not a fan of the length, dragged out over many books.
If the PLOD had had some elements shortened (Savannah and Therava especially could have been trimmed up a bit), and had the whole thing in one (two at most) books, I think it could have been quite more compelling of a story arc.
That said, the Blight arc had things that I loved in the earlier books, that I wished to see more in the series. Specifically: raising the stakes and tension in the story does not always mean bigger is better. For example, in many stories (esp. on television), they have to make the stakes higher by bringing worldwide doom into factor. That’s not a bad story device, but if you do it every season, it gets stale.
By this I mean, I love it when we go from all these huge powerful characters with access to nuke-level power in their souls, to just people struggling for survival in the worst type of wilderness possible I could imagine, with a tool that (at our understanding at the time) could be used to destroy humanity and freedom and Team Light, or Save it, that must be kept safe At Any Cost.
The Horn was one of the biggest Guns on the Mantle for this story IMO, and thus having it kept secret was of utmost importance. Especially when discretion was of the utmost essence.
Yes, Elayne or Egwene could have opened a quick gateway to where it was stashed, and pulled it through, but that would have required some type of communication with Laras. A communication that could somehow (even if coded) clue in all our Darkfriends that Something’s Up.
Also, for me, all fantasy is by its very nature contrived, in that it’s fantasy. It’s imagination, ideas come to life that wouldn’t work in the physics and laws of our world. It can be creation in one of its finest hours. When I read a story, I want to love the reading of it. Whether that’s by incredibly well-done plot structure, well-implemented plot devices that stun you when you unravel the mystery (Verin anyone?:D), beautiful world and culture building, but ultimately it comes down to if you enjoy the story as a whole based around characters for me.
Do I enjoy reading the *whole* story of a character, do I find it satisfying? Faile did that for me, especially in the Blight arc. Did I love her character? Perhaps not, not in the way I grew to love our Supergirls (esp. Nynaeve), but I found reading her overall growth, and her part in the story more than entertaining, I found it gave me pause to soulsearch, and great happiness when Perrin found her at the end. I was happy for them. I cared.
I don’t have to love every part of a person, but if I come to care for a person and what happened to them something was done right.
So if I find a story arc contrived, I choose to use my suspension of disbelief (and everyone can choose to use that, or no) until I reach the end, and then I decide how I feel. Was the entire ride worth it for that Character? Was a story arc worth it, even if contrived. Did I enjoy it, and did it add anything to the story and characters I cared about. If yes to any of the above, then it belongs for me.
Faile’s personal story aside, like I mentioned before, all these under-powered completely normal people, with varying conflicts of interest, put into an extreme survival situation, where it doesn’t come to Survival cattiness? Where the tension comes by worry that the person next to you has given their soul over to evil, and it could be one of your closest friends?
Powerful.
Much of the imagery in the blight and Faile and Olver in the Trolloc camp I found beautiful, and well crafted as well. Definitely heightened the scenes.
And Bella! I cried. So. Much. I was terrified in that scene with Faile fleeing, saving the horn, giving it toOlver, his hiding, etc.
When the payoff of the arc came, with Olver in the crack, blowing for all he had with his little heart. Trollocs a hand’s breadth away from tearing his flesh apart and dooming mankind. Noel’s coming to save him. Not just chills. I was sobbing.
(the only criticism I could find was REALLY Team Jordan, you wait til HALFWAY THROUGH THE BOOK TO LET US KNOW OLVER SURVIVED?!!!!! But nah, I can forgive it as a plot device because the wrapping up the arc was so good.)
@55 – I assume it is bad for your teeth! The enamel would be stripped away leaving easily decayed underlayers. But it is done in many RL cultures – see human tooth sharpening in wikipedia.
@56 – “Olver in the crack, blowing for all he had with his little heart. Trollocs a hand’s breadth away from tearing his flesh apart and dooming mankind. Noel’s coming to save him. Not just chills. I was sobbing.”
That was great! I felt the same way just now remembering it.
thepupexpert @@@@@ 54
I am not knowledgeable about this in general, but I read in a book that for Scottish Clanswomen it was usual to get married in their early twenties, or 20ish. So there is some RL precedent somewhere.
@58. ValMar: I doubt that. Adam Smith wrote in The Wealth of Nations (1776): “…a poor woman from the higlands of Scotland will bear on average 18 children….” I don’t think they started in their twenties. Life expectancy in that time was around 50 years. And that really isn’t “medieval”.
JimF,
I read this in a book by a British officer who had commanded Highland regiments in 18th or early 19th century. It was very comprehensive book, though I can’t vouch for it’s accuracy. Unfortunatelly I can’t find it. It was all on Google books because of it’s age. I definitely remember the bit about the marriage age because it surprised me too.
Yet another blast from the past, the return of the Horn icon. I was incredibly excited to see it again, I can tell you! And even if what happens to it here is quite the shock and a very upsetting development, what is eventually revealed about it more than makes up for it. *cheers on Olver* Though I do agree that leaving Olver’s fate dangling from the end of ToM until now…and then not even explaining what happened to him or how he survived, was rather much a let-down.
I know that a lot of the amazing, jaw-dropping, crazy fighting in TAR, like the creative use of gateways and a few other magical happenings, were Sanderson’s doing, but I don’t mind the change. This close to the end, with the Last Battle finally beginning, there needed to be a lot of action–after all this build-up, anything less would seem anti-climactic and disappointing. It may have been described much more swiftly and dynamically than Jordan would have, but I’d like to think even Jordan would have made things more action-packed here at the end. He did a great job with Falme, Dumai’s Wells, and the campaign in Illian. And of course once Perrin fully embraced the wolf dream and learned his skills there, he should be doing a lot of amazing things there.
It may be annoying not to know the full story about Slayer, but Jordan did always say we wouldn’t get the answers and explanations to everything. And personally, I thought the tidbits Slayer gave us here and later (and some others from Lanfear) were fascinating and provide plenty of fodder for us to debate and theorize about for years to come. ;) His comments here are particularly interesting. I have to say that the bits about wanting to be a predator to move up the chain, not having laughing siblings and a happy family, of howling in agony and powerlessness, are all referring to Isam’s experiences. Since Luc had his sister, he presumably had a good, happy, sheltered life, and he had power as First Prince of the Sword. Unless of course those comments also referred to losing Tigraine, or if like Gawyn he felt stifled by his role and so wanted to actually rule…
Faile’s commentary on how when she no longer cared about the Horn any more, when she had grown from being a petulant, selfish Hunter to a wiser and devoted wife who worked hard for what was important, was when the Pattern dropped the Horn in her lap, was indeed a delicious irony. It was also quite meaningful I think, since it resonates with what is often said in the real world: that it’s when you stop looking for something, be it a lost item or a love interest, that you find them or they come to you. It also makes me think she’s right, the Pattern (or at least the Creator) does have a sense of humor. And it is a nice parallel to how flabbergasted and stymied she was back in TDR when she learned Mat had already found and blown the Horn–she wanted it badly then, only to find out it was pointless, so now of course when she no longer cares is when she is given it so as to bear it to the one who sounded it. (Or so everyone thought…)
Finally, while I know some thought the whole subplot of carrying the Horn to Mat was contrived (keep in mind they didn’t know where Mat was until he showed up with the Seanchan, and even if they were willing to give it to him while he was with them, they couldn’t make the exchange in full view of everybody), I think it had a purpose. Even aside from the fact it ended up being used to bring the Horn to its new sounder rather than the old, the fact Faile used to be a Hunter reminded me of what we were told back in TGH–that the Hunt was gathered to find the Horn, then bring it to Illian so it could be used in the Last Battle. This last part was a mistaken belief and never happened (good thing too, since at the time Sammael was holed up there or soon would be), but the fact is…in the end a Hunter actually does bring the Horn to its sounder for the Last Battle. It just wasn’t in Illian, and it wasn’t Mat. So I liked that this aspect of the ritual turned out to have meaning and relevance after all.
Side notes: so Laras did indeed have the Horn, or knew where it was! But all she does is deliver it and leave. All those hopes people had that she would have a larger role or we’d learn more about her…ah well. Also, while I usually didn’t predict ahead of time a lot of developments or revelations, I have to note that ever since Aravine showed up in KOD I’d been suspicious of her; her evasiveness about her past and why she was staying with Faile in ToM made me even more; and it was about here, during the bubble of evil when the Aes Sedai mysteriously collapses with a fatal wound right after Aravine passes by that I knew with a sinking feeling she was a Darkfriend. That she turned out to be a reluctant one who wanted to get out of her oaths and couldn’t almost made it worse. Anyway…you better believe I was horrified at them ending up in the Blight. And the bubble of evil that made them end up there was pretty horrifying too.
Not much to say about Aviendha’s section, except that it was rather awesome seeing Cadsuane suss out that those Aiel weren’t good guys–although it was rather disturbing seeing how she killed the one…her commentary that stopping the heart was so simple, and so close to Healing, isn’t just a reminder of how Aes Sedai can do some pretty terrible things as long as the Oaths allow it (in this case, because he was a Darkfriend), it dovetails with what we were told way back in TSR or TFoH, how Chesmal was the best among Liandrin’s coven at Healing and this also made her the best at torture and killing because the two were closely related. So…disturbing indeed that Cadsuane learned/made the same connection as a Black Ajah… On a somewhat-related note, Sorilea’s comment about owing great toh to Rand and to the land because of what happened to the male channelers they sent into the Blight is the final confirmation (not that we needed it now, after the Wise One powwow with Aviendha at the start of the book) that she walks in the Light. :)
And yes…that bit Leigh quoted about the Dark One was a rather unsettling image. Well-written, too. As for Darlin, he’s quite loyal to Rand and Aviendha is one of his significant others, so I think that is why he listens to her. Aside from what she’s saying just being common sense and matching their plans, so he doesn’t have to worry about being compromised.
“Also also, I know I give Faile (and the Saldaeans in general) grief over their cultural idiosyncrasies re: healthy marriage practices, but even so I couldn’t help but be a little amused that she’s sitting there planning which fights she wants to have with Perrin. I can only assume (and, in fact, I think it’s been said) that the makeup sex is spectacular.”
I had to laugh at that bit too. Unlike some people I’ve always liked Faile, but I think that bit made her more realistic, and more endearing. And yes, it’s been pretty strongly implied about the makeup sex, in ToM for sure but also I think LOC/ACOS.
@@.-@ Ilmoran, @5 bad_platypus: The only one who could have done it, if it wasn’t the Dark One himself, was Ishamael, as he was free at the time (he killed Jarna Malari, the head of the Black Ajah, who tried to have Rand hunted down and killed right after the Aiel War, i.e. not long after Tigraine and Luc both disappeared). Personally I always believed Ishamael was the one who located/captured/forced them to fight, and oversaw the process of their joining, hence explaining why Slayer served him later as Nae’blis, but that it was the Dark One himself who made the joining possible.
Side note: I wonder who sent Slayer to the Two Rivers? With him being so focused on turning Rand, or killing him, I can’t see Ishamael having set it up before his demise. Based on personality, skills, and known activities at the time, I think we can rule out the four plotting in TFoH, and also Moghedien, Semirhage, and Asmodean. Mesaana could have known the Two Rivers was Rand’s home thanks to info she got from the Black Ajah, who got it from the Supergirls. But since Slayer was there to kill Fain, who was after Rand, my vote is Demandred–he wouldn’t have wanted anyone else getting his kill. If Taim was the one in disguise hiring Slayer to kill Rand later, this makes even more sense–he’d already know what Demandred tried to do to Fain for going after Rand.
@8 rhandric: That’s an interesting point. I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re right that that is why he had to die. Of course it was the Finn who told us it would happen, so we knew it was prophecy that would be fulfilled, but you give a good explanation as to why precisely it was fated. Also keep in mind Olver wouldn’t have lost his family and then met Mat if not for Couladin and the Shaido…and the initial thing that set them off, ultimately leading them to Cairhien, was Rand and Mat going to Rhuidean. Mat went because the Finn told him to, and it was there he got the memories that made him able to kill Couladin, which may well have saved Olver’s life. So it’s pretty fitting that one succeeds the other as Hornsounder, and that their fates are intertwined.
@23-24 CireNaes: I love your idea about where wolfbrothers come from. And the fact there were wolf Hunters (and I’m sure Hopper must have been one of them) only seems to make it more likely to be true.
@31 JennB, 32 birgit: Actually it’s my theory that the reason Luc had to go to the Blight was because he was needed to create Slayer (apparently no one else was available to join with Isam, and maybe someone with a connection to Rand would also be needed), and the reason Slayer was needed was because it was his presence in TAR, killing wolves and trying to kill Rand, that forced Perrin to become a full wolfbrother. Aside from this indirectly helping Egwene defeat Mesaana and Taim by reminding her of the rules of TAR and that balefire was “only a weave”, if Perrin had not been such a good wolfbrother he could not have saved Rand and the others from Lanfear and the Dark One would have won.
As for why Luc specifically…maybe if he hadn’t gone to the Blight, he would have kept searching for Tigraine until he found her and brought her home, thus preventing Rand from being born of a Maiden on Dragonmount. Or he would have fought for the throne in her absence, thus preventing Morgase and Elayne from ruling. Not to mention it was the fact both he and Tigraine disappeared that led to Taringail marrying Morgase, and this contributed through the Game of Houses to Laman’s Sin and the Aiel War which also led to Rand’s birth.
@56 Loialson: Yes. This, so much this. I couldn’t agree with you more in every respect.
@56 – Very well said!! Mirrors my thoughts on all those points just about exactly. Of course I take it a bit further… to me the Not Quite So Super Girls – Min, Faile… and yes Tuon – were my favorites – as macster said up there – normal people thrown into super normal circumstances – and dealing quite compentantly.
@61. macster: “…Personally I always believed Ishamael was the one who located/captured/forced them to fight, and oversaw the process of their joining, hence explaining why Slayer served him later as Nae’blis, but that it was the Dark One himself who made the joining possible….” That’s the story isn’t it? Luc and Isam fight (reference in tEotW?); Luc dies; the Dark One resurrects Luc – in Isam’s body. Now they share it. Luc prevails in the waking world; Isam walks TAR. In tSR, doesn’t Perrin wonder if Luc is a cousin of Lan’s? (And of course, he is). Whereas, the Wise Ones see Tigraine in Rand, but no one ever sees Tigraine/Rand in Luc or Isam that I recall. Therefore, the Isam body survived, but the two souls were merged into it, each with a different realm of action. They must be aware of one another’s thoughts, as Isam certainly refers to Luc’s opinions a time or two. This is truly “two hearts beat as one” territory.
There’s a little more to it than that; Slayer can wear either body in either place. In the Two Rivers, he’s “Lord Luc” and wearing Luc’s body, but in other places we’ve seen him in the waking world wearing Isam’s body. Conversely, we’ve seen him in each body in TAR. Apparently the trick is that he can only change bodies in the transition, but he can choose either one each time.
@64. Wetlandernw That’s what I’m getting at. Lord Luc looks like Lan *- that is, Isam’s body. Does anyone ever relate Isam to Rand/Tigraine: i.e. Luc’s body? I cannot remember, but I don’t think that connection is ever made. I think it is one body, two inhabitants; each with a different realm of control. The Great Lord is shown numerous times bringing back a soul, but it’s always in an appropriated body (that soul apparently is thrown away). He just made a new tool here.
*Is that a new world record for complete sentences in which every word starts with L? I could have added “leading llamas” but it seemed over the top.
No. Lord Luc looks like Tigraine – that’s why Janduin wouldn’t fight him in the Blight. When Perrin first meets him, he’s described as having dark reddish hair; when the super-girls glimpse him spying on them in T’A’R, they think he looks like Rand’s uncle. Shortly after Perrin first meets him, a man who looks like Lan tries to kill Nynaeve in TAR.
Isam looks “enough like Lan to be his brother;” Luc looks like he “could be Rand’s uncle.” Isam has dark hair; Luc has dark reddish hair. (Both have blue eyes, fwiw.)
Additionally, RJ said, “Slayer just chooses who he will be when he steps into or out of Tel’aran’rhiod. The stepping in and out is part of the mechanism for his change. He couldn’t do it in the middle of a street, say, not without the stepping in or out. Which might be a little noticeable, since he would vanish from sight for a perceptible time.”
So it’s not just Isam’s body with two souls in it; he can actually choose which body to use in TAR, and he can choose which body to use in the waking world. And he can choose any time he steps into or out of T’A’R. Does that make it any clearer?
Wet@64
Good point. My thought is that it has something to do with how Birgette ended up with a real body when she was ripped out of TAR. Not necessarily that both bodies need have survived their joining. I have no idea how, but it’s a question worth asking BWS sometime. There’s a definate 2 way street going on with how a D/dreamer can die in TAR if they aren’t careful or wake up with wounds (Perrin’s Alfred Hitchcock moment in TDR Ch. 55 or Mesana’s mindmelt in TOM Ch. 38).
66. Wetlandernw: I cannot argue with that . You have the scholarship here; my memory is really faulty, it appears. But the case you describe is even worse than I imagined; two souls, two bodies, three personalities, and they…uhh, mmm, blecchh. It’s inhumane, I say. Thanks.;)
Truth? It gives me the creeps if I think about it too hard. ::shudder::
If I try to figure out the logistics, it just gives me a headache. (Where does he store the extra body?)
Cadsuane seems to be getting more bearable all the time. Did she take Tam’s remark about bullying to heart? She’s still sharp and snappish but no longer flagrantly and pointlessly offensive. Maybe Sorilea is being a good influence?
In fairness to the Aiel they don’t know about turning. The practice was intended to give male channelers an honorable death as opposed to going mad, doing harm to their own and rotting to death. Good intentions and the road to hell.